The "Counter" Game

Hmmm viper, I guess that is fair enough. Against Viper I'd say weaver .
Orb walk doesn't help if he just goes invis the moment you try to hit him and he hits you! Plus his ulti screws things up .

So many heros used... this getting to be a good topic ^_^
Against weaver, i would have to suggest Spirt Breaker.... The bash and pushback could be quite annoying for weaver to get spells off.
Charge could be used to catch up to weaver incase of escape or to start the Bash - pushback. Has the hp to tank the dmg weaver could try do.. [until weaver has crit or rad)

SB is a toughy . I think meepo would be a good counter though. Since with mass net, even if he does get a charge + one strike on you, your meepo will survive, and then the other ones just kill him. Although it'd have to be high level players (the higher the skill, the more meepo benefits, since he has more potential). Basically once meepo is lvl 6, he cant necessarily kill SB, but he can escape from SB, once lvl 11, SB can be killed as well.

Look at this link it tells you most the counter heros for each hero.. Its quite useful to read it!

this link just ruined it so its removed

You may need a account to look at that site but im not sure :\

Half-Br33D wrote:Look at this link it tells you most the counter heros for each hero.. Its quite useful to read it!

this link just ruined it so its removed

You may need a account to look at that site but im not sure :\

Sigh and now he pretty much ruined this topic....... originally we were basing off game exp etc, now there is a link that states it all

O well lol, well its for us to learn really. But i think ur meepo would have been a good counter for weaver also.

ahh XD I love ruining shit

meepo - Earthshaker
Ulti = GG
Need more?

I removed the link because this is really good. There is actually a discussion going on rather than just stating the hero name.

Huskar against ES I think, since as STR hero, he can get items to survive the initial (holy crap so much damage) problem (at lower levels he wont need the items yet), and from low health he has crazy regen. It becomes a case of can't be killed, but if you try to fight, you lose (where es loses) basically. I was actually going to suggest naix, but that relies on predicting the future which isnt really allowed I think .

Huskar is actually a really awesome hero, just that ... o well i was about to say the perfect/near perfect counter , although now i think about it it isn't that good a counter hmmmm... well we can argue about it when it comes up.

IMO meepo has to low of hp to counter SB, but if meepo's pro he could handle and we are going on the assumption that both players are on par.

So counter to huskar... Lanaya, or TA. Her invis strike thing + invin for 5 hits destroys huskar really. If you put on refraction and huskar ulti's you, he loses hp and yeah nothing happens to you. Slow + high dmg strikes + refraction = ability to negate huskars real abilities.

Against Lanaya, I would pick pudge (not really, but he his a good counter). Have to play smart though, since while refract causes hell if you do hook first, rot does damage 4 times a second? Lanaya is low hp, so its basically negating her refract and eatting her. Hook stops her running away (ideally anyway) while she slow traps you and dismember , well not much to say bout that. It would be really tricky, but in most cases pudge can win out since he has hp advantage, disable, and nukes and refract negating ability.

well first of all pudge has already been used, so if you want to use pudge as ur counter you have to say why pudge is the ONLY counter to TA. Or at least the only counter that hasnt already be used, like i think lion would work, as impale still dmges while invis and hex can help with escape and killing by stopping her goin invis plus ur ulti to own the low hp TA. So yeah, someone try think of another non used hero to counter her.

Shit ive thought of a few but i cant remember who has been used already lolz. Maybe we someone who has some spare time could make a list of those already used and chuck em under str agil and intel so u can find them faster? Make it in a new post, and the moderators can add to it when someone posts a new one. Glad i got this topic going again, its good.

EDIT: I dont think sladar has been used has he? He would be a good counter to TA, his stun and bash would keep her still long enough to wack her a few times to get rid of the 5 hit protection, plus the armour reduction to inc dmg, and keep an eye on her if she trys to run off. Unless the ulti lets you see her invis? all it takes is someone that isnt stingey with gold and will buy wards, and shes toast.
The high health means you cant quickly be killed by her popping out of invis before you know whats happened. Plus sprint means you are only slowed by 10% (50% - 40%) rather than the full 50%. So he can make a getway with either stun/sprint or just sprint/juke.

Slardar would work and yes ulti lets u see her invis.

PUdge has been used? sorry i forgot :S. and LION was the other (well one of others) hero i was thinking at the time!
.

I"m inclined to think that slardar wouldn't work as wel as other heroes. But thats jsut me. But we'll go with slardar anyway? Thing is, its killing her thats the problem (with slardar anyway), as trap spam means you cant catch her, unless you have a perma bash effect. I think it'll be a whole more lot closer if she fights as well. She gets +80 damage, and 5 free blocks, 2 "nukes" (well 1 nuke, but youd expect in a fight to use it twice since cd so fast), you have a stun (well 2 as well i suppose) and a bash + the extra -armour damage. Also when you dont have sprint, then traps will give up a much larger advantage. Keeping in mind though if you bash, it counts as a separate source of damage, so yeah its pretty close , but im inclined to think that you'd see lanaya win out at higher level play (the sprints 20% extra damage to yourself could make things pretty bad for you).
And we really need a list or something.. :S

It would be really close.

i rekon a sladar wouldn't have trouble winning with life steal, some hp and a hyper. He would take sum dmg, but steal a fair amount back in the hits he gets in while shes bashed, remember the imba 25% bash chance. Btw sprint is only 10% inc dmg. which is a lot less than u would be getting with 50% dec move speed.

i rekon a sladar wouldn't have trouble winning with life steal, some hp and a hyper. He would take sum dmg, but steal a fair amount back in the hits he gets in while shes bashed, remember the imba 25% bash chance. Btw sprint is only 10% inc dmg. which is a lot less than u would be getting with 50% dec move speed.

10% now? Another buff. Keep in mind that lanaya would have equal or more worth of items (her early game imo is stronger, but we'll go with equal). I'd just give a guess as to butters and a mithril hammer giving her + 84 damage in a fight vs slardars + hmm is it 25 from satanic? I still see it as being close, but biased towards TA (with all the skills come into play). Slardar would be better off going for damage over life steal I should think.

I'm tempted to believe that TA would win out for the first 10 levels at least (which is huge part of game), since she has access to ulti, refract and meld, one level in the range extension if she chooses, while slardar has to choose between ulti, sprint, stun and bash. All which he really needs to beat her. The first 10 levels will also set up for how strong they are later game. But anyway we on to countering slardar?

Does techies using mines then sucide count as a counter in this topic, since both characters would die?

PIB wrote:Does techies using mines then sucide count as a counter in this topic, since both characters would die?

Yes it would count, as suicide is techies skill.

Yeah, sladar isnt really your typical solo hero so i wouldnt see him 1v1 TA in a lane. If your there with someone else, a spell or so from them plus your stun could help keep her under control, or he would do well going and ganking her if she was solo. Also no i wouldnt get satanic as my first item on sladar. Too expensive for what it gives you. You just get helm for some armour/regen/life steal. Then leaving it as not a wasted item, because LATE game you can make it into a satanic. Or if you feel so inclined you can do the MoM alternating with sprint so move real fast constantly lolz. But not so effective late game.

Also wouldnt rush a butterfly on TA either, deso is devestating on her. Then mite get butter after. Dont forget the +dmg for bash and the +dmg you get for hitting while bashed, and the healing you get from life steal (effectively reducing her dmg).

I only bring up butters because it is good against slardar to prevent a permabash chance. Healing from life steal i already told you about. It is pretty much very little, since it is based on the hp lanaya has. (Your a str hero vs a low hp hero, so advantage in comparison is small). In this situation you'd actually as slardar want to get as much DPS as possible, (even desolater over helm if thats the way things are).

well i disagree with you on that. Im not sure on your logic of mana steal being less effective vs a low hp hero? That doesnt make sense, he still steals life, keeping him alive while she is dying. He has to be able to survive her rarefraction and spike dmg. If hes dead before he starts doing dmg, that doesnt help much. If your going to have a dps war with TA hes going to loose. Well im assuming that the TA isnt making his build specifically to try counter sladar.

Anyway.... someone counter sladar.

I assume you mean life steal .

Life steal is based on how much damage you do. Eg. so in a 1v1 fight, if the hero only has 1k hp, and you have 17% life steal, youll lifesteal a total of 170 hp assuming you kill them. Since you are slardar and your hp would be alot higher, we'll say 1.5k hp, you are basically getting a really really tiny advantage that could be spent somewhere else. 170 hp is like an extra 11% (maybe a 0.3 in there but ) You'd be better off buying a damage item instead or other lower tier items. That's why if you plan on killing heroes early you don't get lifesteal (with some exceptions, but for most part no).

But i'll bring up something farfetched but funny. With helm of dominator he can dominate a ranged creep, whenever a fight occurs and lanaya refracts, aoe stun, run, let range creep take off the 4 hits, come back to fight on more even footing. Still close though, since you sacrifice damage to get rid of her refract. But there is all kinds of mind games with that (lanaya could not cast refract, kill druid then refract on you)

Counter to Slardar. Phantom Assassin. Evasion, Crit, Blink strike.

1> Evasion reduces slardars chances of bashing you.
2> Crit increases your damage output and if Slardar is in Sprint one crit is devastating.
3> Blink strike lets you get at least one extra hit on slardar before he tries to escape by sprinting, in which you will do extra dmg because he is sprinting.