Lineup Discussion

yes especially with furions trees. And by then bot will probably need the creeps. Yeah especially with furions trees to tank the damage. After a while you can start using the other camps too. Like furion can teleport down to the far left camp and stack it, after the other 3 are killed and beastmaster can stack the small camp. Then furion can cast on the trees between the two camps then you can wipe out four camps pretty quick with beasts axes. Or beastmaster can handle the left two camps and furion can take the other 3 or vice versa.

Main thing is once your not pulling any more is you just gota keep killing creeps but make sure you dont kill any after the 40second mark (or watever it is) so that the skeletons have time to decay so you can stack whatever camps you havent killed. You cant waste any spawns, especially with two people. The other awesome thing about using furion is he can tp top/mid and gank thier solo lane, as well as helpng bm gank bot continuously.

yeah I know he can do all that , well furion is a pretty good hero, and I suppose necro book or guinsoos first makes it alright, or we can use him as DPS

Saw something interesting, using Chen to jungle enemies jungle. Thought I'd just bring it up

Why chen? You could use a few couldnt you? furion would work, can tp out aswel.

Because the player used chen not furion. And chen is really quite nasty. Was funny there were a total of 6 players all in the top area. But I reckon both sides did bad about taking advantage of situation. Chen was the sent jungler, cent the scourge jungler. Chen and cent hit lvl 3 at 10 minutes (chen kept disrupting). Scourge had sven, cent and lina up top. Sent had chen skele king and leshrac. I'm really disappointed that scourge didn't kill lesh and chen more. (Chen twice, but it was ridiculous).

yeah lolz. 2 tanks/3stuns vs 1 tank/2stuns. Should have been gg for scouge. Maybe their lina was shit, shes kinda the key hero there. Well the one that takes skill lolz.

Hmm with lina, you just usually have sven initiate, it was more that they werent as agressive as they could be. Shoudla just tri lane and win it that way rofl

Yeah, but vs 3 heroes you kinda want 2 use an area stun 2 hit more than one lolz. Then centaur can follow up and stun all of them again. What would be funny is go a team with 5 are stunners. Like magnus, centuar, lina, leshrac and tiny. wud be crack up. Initiate with tiny and then gg for whoever is caught in that stun rofl. Or sand king might be a better initiator.

That sounds like a perfectly viable line up, maybe a little off the norm, but yeah. It'd be cent jungle, magnus and lesh solo.

What i meant to say was 5 "AREA" stunners lol. cus you could stun the whole team, would be fun. Yeah it could also be done without a jungle if needed.
So

Top: tiny and lina
Mid:magnus
Jugnel:cent
Bot:Leshrac

You could do no jungle with lesh solo mid and cent/mag bottom. The reason i put lesh bottom rather than mid is because lesh would be better to help centaur gank the bottom heroes then magnus would. Tiny and lina should rip up top lane and can help gank mid if needed.

You could also swap one of those out for pitlord (must be pro/ish eg mcbastard) and because that is something they wouldnt expect it would fuck them over for the whole game.

They only bad thing is that you really only have an initiator in tiny (and well, it can go wrong :S), until one or more of your guys gets blink .

yeah and pitlord is a good dps, you can kind of carry with him. I think if we were going to not use a jungler then would be good to swap centaur for pit. Then pit and tormenter can rip up with their area dmg while everyone is locked. I dont think i would want to swap pit for anyone bet centaur.

And yeah at genku, blink is win lol. its so mean on lina and tiny especially.

And yeah at genku, blink is win lol. its so mean on lina and tiny especially.

O_o

And yeah pit will be awesome if he has follow up stuns.

That would rock. Pit, then magnus gets in 2 ulti with them all stuck.

pit, firestorm thingy, earth thingy, reverse polarity, shockwave. PWNT.
If you have other heros like centaur etc aswell = GG WHOLE TEAM.
The pit has a massive range and if mag blinks to the middle it SHOULD catch everything caught in pit.
That firestorm thing actually does a heck of alot of damage and if you can get everyone trapped in it for ages it would be awesome. We will have to try this sometime. Just had a game with 2 jungle. PWNAGE!!

Problem with Pit Lord is that he's terrible in a lane. On the rare occasion he is picked competitively, he always jungles.

Also Tiny/Lina is not as strong as you might think due to lack of single target stun. Both can be dodged; Lina has a longish cast time, and Tiny requires you to be fairly close to the target.

Instead of Tiny, Sand King would be a much better choice; Insta AoE targetted stun, and an ulti that rapes face inside Maggy's Polarity.

So the lineup would be:

Long: Leshy
Mid: Maggy
Short: Lina/SK
Jungle: Centaur

And that Chen replay, it was EG vs MYM wasn't it? Maelk was jungling Centaur I think. The problem with trying to gank Chen is that its very difficult to do alone unless you have some serious single target dps; He can pretty much just turn around and chainstomp you.

They only needed two, but anyway, it was very exciting in that lane. Also in early stages, chen cant chain stomp, can only have 1 creep until lvl 5.

I definitely agree with the need for a single target stun or a good initiator. The only time tiny can really initiate if they know you are in lane is going for them when they go last hit/harass, in which case, things are tricky. Or if the opposing team has a melee so you go for that one.

Also I think they need to stop saying jungle when all he does is pull, thats not jungling thats pulling .

Sand king has 0 starting armour... pretty big nerf to his laning power.

you seem to notice in all the top games with sk, he initaites and dies. repeatedly. He ends up with such a crap score and items. But the ones he stuns get raped. Btw i wasnt making a lineup of the best heroes, i was picking 5 area stunn heroes. Sk stuns in a line. Hence picked tiny.

I think pit is great in a lane. He can cast firestorm pretty much every wave with some nulls and a void stone, which doesnt take long with his farming skills.

Stankey wrote:I think pit is great in a lane. He can cast firestorm pretty much every wave with some nulls and a void stone, which doesnt take long with his farming skills.

Casting Firestorm is great and all... It seems like a lot of damage but in reality its a weak amount per wave. Makes creeps easy to deny (for people with any sense of how the game works whatsoever).

Also, usually Pit, if picked competitively, goes wardbitch because he needs practically no items to do what he does best; A weaker, smaller cooldown Treant who can jungle.

SK stuns in quite a fat line resulting in more-or-less AoE. Of course SK initiates and dies, because if the other team doesn't focus fire him, they would all die. That doesn't make SK a bad hero.

0 armor on SK isn't much of a nerf to his lane control tbh, sure you get harassed a bit more but thats not what kills you. Its the chain-stun or chain-nuke or a combination of these. You can always get more regen anyway.

And yes Pit Lord jungles, not pulls. In the game you're probably thinking of (the only game I've seen him in), there's a Chen in his jungle stopping him from properly killing stuffs.

Chen also can't be ganked 1v1; He doesn't get chain stomp till level 5 or bigger at level 7, but pre-level 5 there won't be a hero that can burst him down themselves anyway.

It's more early game for SK, his stun puts in him in line of fire, the less armour means he is alot less likely to survive/do sufficient damage from physical attacks. I'm thinking like level 1-5 here. In a lane where he vs ranged opponents, the damage harassment can do I wouldn't underestimate. It'll still come down to skill/heroes, but the odds are less in favour of sk.

I'm pretty certain it wasn't a game where chen disrupted pitlords jungle. It is just that I don't see him as that special a jungler. Maybe to better phrase it, he isn't a totally awesome jungle, but he can still jungle (and lets not go down the path of o, any hero can jungle).

Pre level 5 there are so few heroes to take down a hero alone unless the hero has already been damaged anyway... thats what teammates are for .

As for SK in competitive games, all SK has to do is do his ult-blink combo for the big battles, what happens afterwards depends entirely his team.

But being near useless in a lane (except for his pit which is extremely average) means that the only real option he has is to jungle.

Don't get me wrong, 0 armor for SK is a nerf, but its not nerf enough to change anything drastically - I'd still pick him for the same reasons as before.

And yes, I agree that all SK has to do is blink/ulti/stun, and leave the rest up for his teammates, who will have little work to do if SK pulls off his combo succesfully

pit is not shit in a lane. Fire storm will kill a wave of creeps. If you cast it every time, their creeps die, and good luck to whoever wants to stand in it to deny. There creeps are dead and the tower gets pushed. He is not shit late game either. You probably just havent seen him played well. Curiass owns on him. You just get boots/treds couple of nulls, void stone and then curiass, then bfury. He farms like a machine. Then you can get your heart or whatever. A curiass means that his firestorm will actually kill a whole wave of creeps, kill, not just hurt. Then throw in some cleave damage.

Moral of the story, neither sk or pit are shit heroes. I would however only put pit lord middle. sk can go top or bot.

Stankey wrote:pit is not shit in a lane. Fire storm will kill a wave of creeps. If you cast it every time, their creeps die, and good luck to whoever wants to stand in it to deny. There creeps are dead and the tower gets pushed. He is not shit late game either. You probably just havent seen him played well. Curiass owns on him. You just get boots/treds couple of nulls, void stone and then curiass, then bfury. He farms like a machine. Then you can get your heart or whatever. A curiass means that his firestorm will actually kill a whole wave of creeps, kill, not just hurt. Then throw in some cleave damage.

Moral of the story, neither sk or pit are shit heroes. I would however only put pit lord middle. sk can go top or bot.

Like I said, in a COMPETITIVE game with people who KNOW how the game works, Pit Lord will be required to go Wardbitch because a Void Stone/possibly Perseverence sets him for the entire game.

Tower gets pushed, people come from other lanes to gank? Jungle hero ganks? They steadily deny so that when the creeps are at their tower, they stay close to that? And since when does Pit Lord getting all the creep kills pose an advantage to your team? Who's he laning with that needs money less than him? Why has he not maxed Pit (arguably the only reason to pick him) first? Why would his team have him farm over someone useful, like Terror, or Void?

Unrelated question: You would have Pit solo?
Second unrelated question: Who else do you consider decent in a dual lane, apart from the conventional generic stun?

Tower gets pushed, people come from other lanes to gank? Jungle hero ganks? They steadily deny so that when the creeps are at their tower, they stay close to that?

No idea what your on about there sorry.

And since when does Pit Lord getting all the creep kills pose an advantage to your team? Who's he laning with that needs money less than him? Why has he not maxed Pit (arguably the only reason to pick him) first? Why would his team have him farm over someone useful, like Terror, or Void?

Its better he gets the creep kills than no-one or them getting denied. His team mate can still last hit as the flames dont hurt him .
He does max pit, but at the same time as his fire, i get them both to lvl 4 then a lvl in ulti at lvl 9. Void lol you makes me laugh. Well there are 3 lanes and a jungle fulla neutrals, terrorblade can go for his life.

He could probably solo mid. But i def wouldnt choose him to do that in an ap line up or whatever so i guess no is the answer.

tinker is nice to have. I duno thers lots.